Comments
- edited April 2016
Please explain. I'm not targeting you in specific. Just making a point. If it agrees with yours, credit goes to you as well. I don't always disagree with you. I only do so when you go way off track :awesome:
Just read how dismissive your first response is in this thread.
Yes, but its just an observation, and not specifically directed at you. Just pointing out that the game is a lot deeper than most are giving it credit for at this time. It's pretty hard to believe that everything in the game has been given such acute detail but that they may have failed on an issue as elementary as this one. That's not to say it's not entirely possible, because it is, but I just think that its deserving of a lot more research and exploration before coming to this absolute conclusion. I am not dismissing your concerns. They are valid and worth discussing for sure.
Do you know they are called blind fans? They are blind, literally.DMKano said:
Just read how dismissive your first response is in this thread.- Valk has to use the shield to show what the DP value does.
Active shield blocking is a SKILL that prevents damage - it has literally ZERO to do with DP value.
Well if you read the latest letter about upcoming updates, Daum states something to the effect that they can't change core game mechanics.If I'm not mistaken, the fix has to come from Pearl, Daum cannot do anything with core game mechanics. True?
Pearl Abyss is under Daum's wing - Daum completely changed the focus of Black Desert once they stepped in after Korean CBT1.
Daum has invested heavily in Pearl Abyss and is the global publisher of Black Desert in all regions - they pretty much run the game at this point.
Much like the relationship Trion has with XL games as you fully understand.
Source..?DirtyDozen said:
Well if you read the latest letter about upcoming updates, Daum states something to the effect that they can't change core game mechanics.
Much like the relationship Trion has with XL games as you fully understand.- Valk has to use the shield to show what the DP value does.
Active shield blocking is a SKILL that prevents damage - it has literally ZERO to do with DP value.
Not saying you are wrong because I really dont know but do you have a source?
Well if you read the latest letter about upcoming updates, Daum states something to the effect that they can't change core game mechanics.If I'm not mistaken, the fix has to come from Pearl, Daum cannot do anything with core game mechanics. True?
Pearl Abyss is under Daum's wing - Daum completely changed the focus of Black Desert once they stepped in after Korean CBT1.
Daum has invested heavily in Pearl Abyss and is the global publisher of Black Desert in all regions - they pretty much run the game at this point.
Much like the relationship Trion has with XL games as you fully understand.
No you misunderstood that answer - what Daum said is that it would take far too much effort to change the game for different regions - so while there are some differences in KR and RU - they are minor, and the core game won't be changed (like making a PvE only server ruleset for NA/EU - not gonna happen)
Again Daum and Pearl Abyss are both korean companies and Daum has PA under their wing - as DAUM and Kakao merged in 2014 and are publically traded - Daum has infused a lot of funds into PA and PA basically works for them now.
So you have one massive company (Daum) and one tiny company (Pearl Abyss)
XL and Trion on the other hand are both roughtly the same size - one has not invested into another and they remain simply a developer/publisher relationship - completely different that Daum and Pearl Abyss.- edited April 2016http://dulfy.net/2016/03/30/black-desert-naeu-release-schedule-for-april-june/
In that link you can find the original source, but here's a translated quote:
'However, it will be difficult to make any drastic build changes or ones that change framework of the game.'
So I don't know, but seems to me DP and AP mechanics could fall under that statement. We'll see I guess.
Again, for someone that understands the relationship between Trion and XL Games this shouldn't be hard to grasp. - Also when you use Shield Block you get a buff that gives DP + 20 so it does have something to do with DP value.
- http://dulfy.net/2016/03/30/black-desert-naeu-release-schedule-for-april-june/
In that link you can find the original source, but here's a translated quote:
'However, it will be difficult to make any drastic build changes or ones that change framework of the game.'
So I don't know, but seems to me DP and AP mechanics could fall under that statement. We'll see I guess.
Again, for someone that understands the relationship between Trion and XL Games this shouldn't be hard to grasp.
Again - it's WAY different than XL and Trion.
PA is basically a part of Daum now.
The line about 'i it will be difficult to make any drastic build changes or ones that change framework of the game.' - is just down to earth honesty about how hard it is to make changes in base framework, it's not feasible.
Having to change base game ruleset is far too much undertaking for any company - this is why NA/EU version is rapidly catching up to where KR is so that they can maintain the game near the same patch level as much as possible - as this makes branching and revision management a LOT easier. - edited April 2016
If it isn't so hard to grasp, you should be aware why your reasoning is fallacious.http://dulfy.net/2016/03/30/black-desert-naeu-release-schedule-for-april-june/
In that link you can find the original source, but here's a translated quote:
'However, it will be difficult to make any drastic build changes or ones that change framework of the game.'
So I don't know, but seems to me DP and AP mechanics could fall under that statement. We'll see I guess.
Again, for someone that understands the relationship between Trion and XL Games this shouldn't be hard to grasp.
1) The quote merely points to fact that maintaining different builds of any software represents enormous amount of work. So it is unlileky going to happen and it has nothing to do with Daum or PA.
2) Because there is certain relationship between Trion and XLGames does not imply there is same relationship between Daum and PA, that is flat out errornous thinking.
Well, I don't have a source, but what I can tell you, DP does not affect what the Shield Block does in combat. A warrior / valkyrie with high AP will block just as well as a warrior / valkyrie with high DP. Block is simply a skill those classes have to stop 100% damage from about 90-95% of sources of damage.Valk has to use the shield to show what the DP value does.
Active shield blocking is a SKILL that prevents damage - it has literally ZERO to do with DP value.
Not saying you are wrong because I really dont know but do you have a source?
As a Valkyrie, I can block pretty much all PvP attacks from the front and play the turtle game. In fact, that is one of my main tactics in PvP is playing the patience game. Simply blocking and waiting for my opponent to get aggressive and make a mistake.
We just had our first multi guild tournament on Uno server and believe it or not, a Valkyrie won both the low level and high level brackets. Valkyries and warriors are very capable in PvP if they aren't stacked in DP. So I'm not going to say the classes are broken, but what is broken is certain playstyles. I'm so sick of games like GW2 where everyone plays DPS. While this game never said it had a Trinity system, the classes are role specific. So it bothers me when game companies design a game with certain mechanics and than turn around and completely f*ck it up with stupid hidden or broken design.
Valk isn't active shield blocking it is a buff around them that makes them lunge a bit more with attacks when initially activated.. There may be active blocking too but it doesn't play like Warrior as much..Valk has to use the shield to show what the DP value does.
Active shield blocking is a SKILL that prevents damage - it has literally ZERO to do with DP value.
Uhm what? Warrior and Valkyrie both have the exact same block skill / mechanic. I have no idea what you are referring to with it being for dash maneuvers only. I play as a Valkyrie and we definitely have a Block skill that is activated by hitting Q and it stays up for 19 seconds unless you block an attack which refreshes that timer.
Valk isn't active shield blocking it is a buff around them that makes them lunge a bit more with attacks when initially activated.. There may be active blocking too but it doesn't play like Warrior as much..Valk has to use the shield to show what the DP value does.
Active shield blocking is a SKILL that prevents damage - it has literally ZERO to do with DP value.
My idea of being tanky doesn't include sucking down XL health pots every 5 seconds though. Basically all that video showed was how worthless DP is and how valuable health potions are. However, he was able to stay alive the whole time, but as was stated already, Block mechanic is very useful for avoiding frontal damage, but anyone that hit him from behind was punching through him like a wet paper bag.Was watching this and looks pretty tanky to me- Why is there just one clip/test? In order to show it not scaling you should show how fast it takes to kill with max DP and then show how fast it takes with what ever DP is considered to be the ceiling (around 200?).
As someone who isn't on that level or pvped this tells me virtually nothing except you die fast to a ranger with that AP. - Was watching this and looks pretty tanky to me
Do you not understand the difference between a video showing AP vs DP test and a PvP video?
The video in the OP is *NOT A PVP VIDEO* - it has nothing to do with ranger or valkyrie either.
it has to do with 200AP vs 359 DP test - because 159 DP advantage should mean something, right?
Get outta' here lol. Different dynamics? What exactly is 'dynamic' about everybody building glass cannon because DP doesn't really matter? 360 DP is a tremendous amount of DP, and he basically got insta-killed by someone with 200 AP.
All that test tells me is that one class put a lot more thought into its build than the other classes. Its all rock/paper/scissors with a lot of skill sprinkled in. Nothing is set in stone when you get to that level. Different dynamics in builds and skill yield different results.- edited April 2016Melee needs defense or defensive abilities against range because range usually initiates and also range can kite.
In BnS, there is almost no difference in defensive stats between classes, but melee usually has tons of i-frame abilities and gap closers, or other things like block and stealth.
Is it similar in BDO? If so, this might not be as much of an issue as it seems. - What you say about DP could be true, but the video doesn't prove anything imo. I don't think you can just take one stat in isolation and use two different classes with one standing there doing nothing to assess something like this (that DP scaling needs to be adjusted).
For one thing there are other defensive stats, movement in itself provides defense, and classes have active defenses. Possibly all these factors and others I am unaware of (since I didn't make the game) contribute to why DP doesn't scale as well as AP? - It seems to me that due to the nature of the action based combat mechanics, it is probably intended that defense is supposed to be more about evasion and using the defense related skills rather than just having a passive damage reduction modifier.Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with The Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW..
- edited April 2016What you say about DP could be true, but the video doesn't prove anything imo. I don't think you can just take one stat in isolation and use two different classes with one standing there doing nothing to assess something like this (that DP scaling needs to be adjusted).
For one thing there are other defensive stats, movement in itself provides defense, and classes have active defenses. Possibly all these factors and others I am unaware of (since I didn't make the game) contribute to why DP doesn't scale as well as AP?
Actually the real reason is probably because any class can use any armor - so if DP actually meant something then wizards and rangers would stack crazy high DP and be in godmode with their damage AND high defense.
So instead of locking armor to specific classes (like heavy armor only for melee) - they opened all armor to all classes and made DP useless.
The freedom of armor selection killed DP scaling IMO.
I think that high DP armor should be class restricted - or at least make ranged classes suffer mobility and stamina if using high DP armor.
He knows first hand, don't worry.
Do you know they are called blind fans? They are blind, literally.DMKano said:
Just read how dismissive your first response is in this thread.
Yeah as a person who mains a Valk I can already feel the problems with DP/AP scaling in the mid-50s. the Secondary weapon being DP feels like a waste of stones.What you say about DP could be true, but the video doesn't prove anything imo. I don't think you can just take one stat in isolation and use two different classes with one standing there doing nothing to assess something like this (that DP scaling needs to be adjusted).
For one thing there are other defensive stats, movement in itself provides defense, and classes have active defenses. Possibly all these factors and others I am unaware of (since I didn't make the game) contribute to why DP doesn't scale as well as AP?
Actually the real reason is probably because any class can use any armor - so if DP actually meant something then wizards and rangers would stack crazy high DP and be in godmode with their damage AND high defense.
So instead of locking armor to specific classes (like heavy armor only for melee) - they opened all armor to all classes and made DP useless.
The freedom of armor selection killed DP scaling IMO.
I think that high DP armor should be class restricted - or at least make ranged classes suffer mobility and stamina if using high DP armor.
Contents
Accuracy - Hidden stat affected by your hit rate and armor penetration?
Level - Level differences also affect hit rate. You gain hit chance-overleveled and lose hit chance under-leveled.
DP - Defense points. Affects damage taken and your dodge rate.
Casting Speed (CS) - Increases speed of affected skills by 5% per rank
Attack Speed (AS) - Increases speedof affected skills by 5% per rank
Move Speed - 5% increase per rank
Race Damage - Rumoured to not be a plain race-specific AP increase and to factor differently into damage calculation
Breath - Provides a variable bonus to stamina (Max +500 at 30). Gained by travelling distance on foot.
Strength - Provides a variable bonus to weight limit (max +40 LT at 30). Gained by travelling distance with a trade pack in inventory.
Health - Variable HP and MP/WP/SP gains (Max +290/200 at 30). Only leveled by eating food.
Fishing Ability - Affects average time to get a bite
Life Skill Ranks - Beginner(1-10) < Apprentice(1-10) < Skilled(1-10) < Professional(1-10) < Artisan (1-10) < Master (1-30) < Guru (?)You can gear for resistances in the following categories:
- Stun/Stiffness/Freeze - Stun
- Knockdown/Bound - Down status (ie. knocked down)
- Grapple - PvP only, bypasses block and super armor.
- Knockback/Floating - Air status
All characters begin with a base 20% resistances to all things. Different mobs have differing resistances. In PvP specifically, there is a hard cap of 60% on all resistances. The NA release began with the new CC system where you gain immunity to CC of the same CC while under the effects of that CC with the exception of stiffness which you can stack on itself and any CC that ends in down state which grants immunity to all CC except grabs. I do need to test stacking more thoroughly however. Do note that freeze, grabs, and floating all end in a downed state. This means that if you want to stun, you must wait for existing stuns and knockdowns to wear off before you may stun, which is true for all CC except stiffness, otherwise feel free to chain CC.
Skill specific effects:
- Super armor - Skills that provide super armor provide resistance to all CC except grabs.
- Block - Always frontal as far as I can think of. Grabs bypass block. Black spirit rage skills sometimes get a block. Warrior/Valk block fuunction based on quantity of attacks blocked and are put on cooldown once that limit has been reached.
- Invincibility - Also known as i-frames
Universal
Back Attacks - x1.5 damage when dealing damage to the back, universal combat mechanic
State-based
Counter Attack - x2.0 damage if skill land while opponent is casting
Down Attack - x1.5 damage if target is in down state
Air Attack - x2.5 damage if target is in air state
Speed Attack - x1.5 on opponents moving towards you (only towards?)
Any attack can back attack, however this does not stack with state-based modifiers and the largest modifier is taken. Thus if you attack airborne targets from the back with an air attack skill, you only x2.5 damage.
Additional Skill Modifiers
Back Attacks - x1.5 damage when dealing damage to the back, universal combat mechanic
State-based
Counter Attack - x2.0 damage if skill land while opponent is casting
Down Attack - x1.5 damage if target is in down state
Air Attack - x2.5 damage if target is in air state
Speed Attack - x1.5 on opponents moving towards you (only towards?)
Any attack can back attack, however this does not stack with state-based modifiers and the largest modifier is taken. Thus if you attack airborne targets from the back with an air attack skill, you only x2.5 damage.
Additional Skill Modifiers
Stiffness/Rigid - Stun, generally shorter duration. Only CC to stack with itself.
Stun - Stun but you're immune while stuns unlike stiffness's stacking.
Bound - Floors target where they stand. Applies down status.
Knockback - Moves the target further away. Bound - Floors target where they stand. Applies down status.
Knockdown - Knockback and bound.
Floating - First enters air status then ends in down status (knockup into bound)
Bounce - ?? Floating with a bounce so knockback, ?? so applies air, down, air, down ??
Air Smash - Applies knockback if airborne, but does not cause air status
Down Smash - Applies knockback if downed, but does not cause down status
Down Smash - Applies knockback if downed, but does not cause down status
For alternative viewing pleasure, status effects are applied from left to right in order.
Black Desert Dp Vs Damage Reduction Reviews
Air State | Stun | Knockback | Down State | Notes |
Stiffness/Rigid | ||||
Stun | ||||
Freeze | ||||
Bound | ||||
Knockback | ||||
Knockdown | ||||
Floating | ||||
Bounce | ||||
Air Smash* | Requires but doesn't prolong air state | |||
Down Smash* | Requires but doesn't prolong down state |
- How awakening cs/as buff stacks with sage's memory (additively or multiplicatively)
- How cast time reduction stacks with casting speed ranks (i assume multiplicatively)
- Back attacks yield extra crit rate?
- Back attacks stacking with down/counter/etc. attacks
- Stun grants freeze immunity
- Speed attacks on strafing and fleeing targets
- Air attacks on knockback
- How bounce works
- Block on other classes also works like warrior block and break eventuallly? Probably have to be extremelyl overweight on sorc or tamer.
- How 1-5 Crit Rate stacks with base crit modifiers on skills
- AP/DP calculationss, jk no way I'm putting in the effort to test that
- On Chaining CC's Youtube side note by Wilky and Lumos on Blayise's stream
- Testing skill attributes Reddit
- Titles bonuses Google Doc bythecheken
- Training bonuses BDFoundry
Comments
- edited April 2016Can I say it?
'LOL RANGER!'
If they want to test that, they should pit a DP valkyrie against an AP valkyrie.
And anyway, I really don't see the validity of such a test if one character doesn't even play. A player behind the keyboard would have controlled that ranger, used his shield.
Have you a similar video where the ranger stands still and the valkyrie bashes the hell out of him?'The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent' - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27' gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits. - edited April 2016Can I say it?
'LOL RANGER!'
If they want to test that, they should pit a DP valkyrie against an AP valkyrie.
And anyway, I really don't see the validity of such a test if one character doesn't even play. A player behind the keyboard would have controlled that ranger, used his shield.
Have you a similar video where the ranger stands still and the valkyrie bashes the hell out of him?
The Valkyrie in the video has 359DP!!! That is ridiculously high even for top Korean players which are usually at around 250 DP. That was the point of the entire test.
It's an AP vs DP test as I clearly stated - this is not a Ranger vs Valkyrie PvP test.
What the test shows is that DP does NOT scale, AP does.
So there is no tank build possible in PvP period, AP simply owns all.
Bottom line investing heavily into DP does not pay off as investing heavily into AP.
Also what classes have the highest AP? Ranged classes which combined with mobility makes a massive advantage in PvP
Melee is screwed in PvP Black Desert - unless Pearl Abyss and Daum do something about DP scaling equally as AP.
Having 150 more DP than your attacker AP should make a world of difference - as the video shows - it doesn't. - edited April 2016how about increase AP on melee then? i've never seen the point of tanking in PvP. Its not like the attacker will ever die if you dont hit back.
EDIT: i know i may be in the minority but as a non pvper myself, if i join pvp damage is what i would want to do regardless of class. - Only more mounting proof that pvp in rpg's should never exist,it needs to be so perfectly balanced yet never will be plus the fact that balance makes for more boring combat unless done as a fps with properly designed maps and weapons.Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
- edited April 2016
All that test tells me is that one class put a lot more thought into its build than the other classes. Its all rock/paper/scissors with a lot of skill sprinkled in. Nothing is set in stone when you get to that level. Different dynamics in builds and skill yield different results. - Yeah, I already figured DP was broken after I finally reached 200+ DP with my Valkyrie and noticed people with less than 100 AP were still damaging me like I was wearing a paper bag. I can attest to the fact that DP is a broken mechanic in this game and was just about to post on the official forums stating it as so. However, on a side note, DP is not the only defensive skill. There is also another mechanic called damage reduction which I am now trying to build up via my Kite Shield as well as enchanted armor such as Iron Wall which is designed for melee defense. If that does nothing than I'm going to update my DP post to include all defensive mechanics are severely broken.
- edited April 2016
That does not help to the problem.how about increase AP on melee then? i've never seen the point of tanking in PvP. Its not like the attacker will ever die if you dont hit back.
EDIT: i know i may be in the minority but as a non pvper myself, if i join pvp damage is what i would want to do regardless of class.
If you increase AP on melee, they will drop dead before they reach ranged character anyway.
Melee needs survivability to make up for the lack of damage projection - you need survive long enough to get close so you can apply your damage.
Regardless, melee characters are screwed in group/mass PVP in any game..there is no fix to that, imo. - buhu .. yeah its really hard if there isn´t any FOTM (Flavour of the month) Skilling in which 80% have the same specs, armour and weapons just to feel superior or have an excuse if this person gets killed in pvp .. maybe a 'Buffed' Magazine comes next month and tells you every fking step you must take .. yeah!
Where has all the exploring gone .. and i mean in 'every' aspect of an mmo ..
AND a special tip for the DEVs of future MMO´s .. put in that if i am pressing 'F5', all human players will be invisible and chat gets disabled .. i will call it .. 'Single Player Mode' .. because most of the playerbase in an MMO today is playing the game solo or random group for boss fights .. and after 2-3 months the screams get louder . 'What a shitty game !' and 'I played solo for 128hours straight and didnt get shit' ..
PLAY TOGETHER AGAIN .. from THE START and not if 'you' want something to make you in sync with the 'Buffed Guide' ..
and yeah i am german so excuse me my english xD !!! Back to the Chopper ! - edited April 2016how about increase AP on melee then? i've never seen the point of tanking in PvP. Its not like the attacker will ever die if you dont hit back.
EDIT: i know i may be in the minority but as a non pvper myself, if i join pvp damage is what i would want to do regardless of class.
The thing is look at Warrior, Valk - they are build around being tanks and having higher DP than the rest - a ton of defensive abilities - what's the point if AP simply dominates.
DP stops scaling somwhere near 200 it seems, AP never stops scaling.
Again the problem here is that this a HUGE advantage to classes that already have a huge advantage in PvP - wiz/witch and rangers - as they are all about maxing AP anyway since they have the mobility too and PvP just fine without massive DP.
The flip side is a high AP Valk or Warrior - yeah they get wrecked by ranged regardless.
That's the problem - melee only is completely F'd - the reason why Berserker goes from the laughing stock of all classes to a respectable class at 56 is because they get ranged weapon awakening - fist cannon - and can keep up with ranged classes. - Yeah, I already figured DP was broken after I finally reached 200+ DP with my Valkyrie and noticed people with less than 100 AP were still damaging me like I was wearing a paper bag. I can attest to the fact that DP is a broken mechanic in this game and was just about to post on the official forums stating it as so. However, on a side note, DP is not the only defensive skill. There is also another mechanic called damage reduction which I am now trying to build up via my Kite Shield as well as enchanted armor such as Iron Wall which is designed for melee defense. If that does nothing than I'm going to update my DP post to include all defensive mechanics are severely broken.
Yep - pure DP is a total bust unfortunately - it needs MAJOR fixing.
Keep us updated on your tests please - thanks!
All that test tells me is that one class put a lot more thought into its build than the other classes. Its all rock/paper/scissors with a lot of skill sprinkled in. Nothing is set in stone when you get to that level. Different dynamics in builds and skill yield different results.
You are completely failing to understand a straight forward AP vs DP test - this has nothing to do with builds - it has to do with raw AP value vs DP value on gear.
One scales - one doesn't.
It's completely broken, and needs fixing.- Yeah, I already figured DP was broken after I finally reached 200+ DP with my Valkyrie and noticed people with less than 100 AP were still damaging me like I was wearing a paper bag. I can attest to the fact that DP is a broken mechanic in this game and was just about to post on the official forums stating it as so. However, on a side note, DP is not the only defensive skill. There is also another mechanic called damage reduction which I am now trying to build up via my Kite Shield as well as enchanted armor such as Iron Wall which is designed for melee defense. If that does nothing than I'm going to update my DP post to include all defensive mechanics are severely broken.
Rhoklaw is on to something here. Players need to explore more. The game is deeper than the average WoW clone. - Yeah i can see both your points @DMKano and @Gdemami. It is going to be difficult to balance that without taking away the 'unique' feeling from each class.
I hope they manage to do something about it. - Being able to survive only 1 more hit than you did before is major in this game. I know its not a valk vs ranger example but if the valk was fighting back that ranger could NEVER kill the valk if the valk played defensively. if dp scaled like ap than mayor adjustments have to be made to defensive classes.
Wat is also likely possible and tested is 1: DP scales differently on every class
2: There is a DP cap or a (softcap) that makes you gain less for each dp coming after that
Maybe dp scales differently on every class, I dont know but its something that would not shock me knowing this game and it would make sense. Anyone blows up in this game if they were not fighting back, if they did not than pvp would be unplayable and warrior/valk would be perma god mode.
The fix is actually defense that works - having a tanky build in PvP works in other games, you know classes that can take major punishment but have very low DPS as a tradeoff.
Regardless, melee characters are screwed in group/mass PVP in any game..there is no fix to that, imo.
DP is just flat out broken in Black Desert - fixing it would be a huge step in actually getting some sort of inkling of PvP balance - as right now if you are a melee defensive build in BD - might as well take your gear off and save on the repair cost.- Yeah, I already figured DP was broken after I finally reached 200+ DP with my Valkyrie and noticed people with less than 100 AP were still damaging me like I was wearing a paper bag. I can attest to the fact that DP is a broken mechanic in this game and was just about to post on the official forums stating it as so. However, on a side note, DP is not the only defensive skill. There is also another mechanic called damage reduction which I am now trying to build up via my Kite Shield as well as enchanted armor such as Iron Wall which is designed for melee defense. If that does nothing than I'm going to update my DP post to include all defensive mechanics are severely broken.
Rhoklaw is on to something here. Players need to explore more. The game is deeper than the average WoW clone.
So as long as it's not me bringing it up - and it's the same point as my OP - you'll agree to that.
lol - nice
In what game do you survive after being primaried by 50 people?DMKano said:
The fix is actually defense that works - having a tanky build in PvP works in other games, you know classes that can take major punishment but have very low DPS as a tradeoff.
DP is just flat out broken in Black Desert - fixing it would be a huge step in actually getting some sort of inkling of PvP balance - as right now if you are a melee defensive build in BD - might as well take your gear off and save on the repair cost.- Being able to survive only 1 more hit than you did before is major in this game. I know its not a valk vs ranger example but if the valk was fighting back that ranger could NEVER kill the valk if the valk played defensively. if dp scaled like ap than mayor adjustments have to be made to defensive classes.
Wat is also likely possible and tested is 1: DP scales differently on every class
2: There is a DP cap or a (softcap) that makes you gain less for each dp coming after that
Maybe dp scales differently on every class, I dont know but its something that would not shock me knowing this game and it would make sense. Anyone blows up in this game if they were not fighting back, if they did not than pvp would be unplayable and warrior/valk would be perma god mode.
DP scales to about 200-220 maybe.
AP never stops scaling period.
The test has been done with different classes - DP scales the same on all of them - aka it's broken universally.
Again given that the highest AP goes to ranged classes that have a much easier time in PvP anyway - the imbalance is huge. - Yeah, I already figured DP was broken after I finally reached 200+ DP with my Valkyrie and noticed people with less than 100 AP were still damaging me like I was wearing a paper bag. I can attest to the fact that DP is a broken mechanic in this game and was just about to post on the official forums stating it as so. However, on a side note, DP is not the only defensive skill. There is also another mechanic called damage reduction which I am now trying to build up via my Kite Shield as well as enchanted armor such as Iron Wall which is designed for melee defense. If that does nothing than I'm going to update my DP post to include all defensive mechanics are severely broken.
Rhoklaw is on to something here. Players need to explore more. The game is deeper than the average WoW clone.
So as long as it's not me bringing it up - and it's the same point as my OP - you'll agree to that.
lol - nice
Please explain. I'm not targeting you in specific. Just making a point. If it agrees with yours, credit goes to you as well. I don't always disagree with you. I only do so when you go way off track :awesome: - If I'm not mistaken, the fix has to come from Pearl, Daum cannot do anything with core game mechanics. True?
- Valk has to use the shield to show what the DP value does.
Some PVP games will actually allow Tanks to be viable though that's usually in group fights. In most games that have a lot of 1 vs 1, or just open world/non-objective based PVP then being a Tank can be rough most of the time. WoW is probably the only exception to that because Blizzard was always dabbling with class balance.how about increase AP on melee then? i've never seen the point of tanking in PvP. Its not like the attacker will ever die if you dont hit back.
EDIT: i know i may be in the minority but as a non pvper myself, if i join pvp damage is what i would want to do regardless of class.
With games that have collision detection like WAR, then tanks can block doorways, stairwells or other choke points making them very viable. Also in group PVP, the Tanks job is usually to stick on the enemy healer. He might not kill the healer but he will keep enough pressure on him that he won't be able to heal his teammates and plus being a tank he will be hard as hell to peel off of the healer.'If I offended you, you needed it' -Corey Taylor- Do we actually have tests of crazy high AP? You say dp stop scaling pas 220 could it be the same for AP? Given it's a lot harder to get the high AP, still it could be that they set a softcap with diminishing return on both around 220.
- If I'm not mistaken, the fix has to come from Pearl, Daum cannot do anything with core game mechanics. True?
Pearl Abyss is under Daum's wing - Daum completely changed the focus of Black Desert once they stepped in after Korean CBT1.
Daum has invested heavily in Pearl Abyss and is the global publisher of Black Desert in all regions - they pretty much run the game at this point. - Yeah, I already figured DP was broken after I finally reached 200+ DP with my Valkyrie and noticed people with less than 100 AP were still damaging me like I was wearing a paper bag. I can attest to the fact that DP is a broken mechanic in this game and was just about to post on the official forums stating it as so. However, on a side note, DP is not the only defensive skill. There is also another mechanic called damage reduction which I am now trying to build up via my Kite Shield as well as enchanted armor such as Iron Wall which is designed for melee defense. If that does nothing than I'm going to update my DP post to include all defensive mechanics are severely broken.
Rhoklaw is on to something here. Players need to explore more. The game is deeper than the average WoW clone.
So as long as it's not me bringing it up - and it's the same point as my OP - you'll agree to that.
lol - nice
Please explain. I'm not targeting you in specific. Just making a point. If it agrees with yours, credit goes to you as well. I don't always disagree with you. I only do so when you go way off track :awesome:
Just read how dismissive your first response is in this thread.
Adventurers,
This update will bring a set of balance changes that are aimed at improving the six original classes of Black Desert. These balance changes will adjust the damage that classes do in combat, and we will constantly monitor the situation to see if there are any more balance improvements we can make in the future.
General Changes
- All basic attacks have been modified, giving them more damage and more practicality at later stages.
- Bonus AP and DP will be awarded to all classes at the following levels:
- Level 56: +1 DP
- Level 60: +1 AP
- Animation and hit timings of basic attacks have been improved to make them feel more natural.
Changes
- Additional hits added when using [Spinning Slash] in PvE Content (extra hits do not apply to PvP Content).
- The skill, [Slash] will now be fixed to 4 hits (reduced from 6), with a new final attack animation added.
- [Piercing Spear] WP consumption decreased from 95 points to 50 points.
- Forward Guard effect has been added to the [War Cry] skill.
- Forward Guard effect has been added to the first action of the ‘Counter’ skill.
- [Ultimate: Ground Smash] Damage increased by 50%, and number of hits has increased.
- Previous: 1023% x2 → New: 1591% x4
- Critical Hit rate 100% effect added when landing a good hit with [Ultimate: Ground Smash]
- Super Armor effect added to all levels of ‘Ground Smash’ except [Ultimate: Ground Smash]
- Damage of skills that can be learned from Lv.1 to Lv.55 has been changed as follows:
[Other Warrior Changes]
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- Fixed an issue where [Scars of Dusk] would cause the skill effects to remain when dismounting a horse.
- Animation has been improved when dashing side to side with main weapons drawn.
- You can now use [Guard] while using other skills.
- Fixed an issue where [Kick] would trigger while using [Ground Smash].
- Fixed an issue where the following skills were able to be used again during their cooldown:
- Kick
- Chopping Kick
- Guard
- Piercing Spear
- Charged Shield Strike
- The skill [Guard] will no longer work while using [Piercing Spear].
- [Forward Slash] and [Shield Charge] can now be used while using [Slash] (basic attack).
- You can now use the next skill faster after the last [Slash] attack.
- Fixed an issue where the first strike in [Kick] skill would push an enemy too far and the second kick would not connect.
Changes
- [Bow Skill] will now be fixed to 3 hits (reduced from 6), and a new final attack animation has been added.
- Damage of skills that can be learned from Lv.1 to Lv.55 has been changed as follows:
- Fixed an issue where the following skills were not showing hit effects when successfully hitting monsters:
- Dagger of Protection
- Pinpoint
- Round Kick
[Other Ranger Changes]
- Fixed an issue where the [Blasting Gust] particle effect would appear even when the skill was cancelled
- Fixed an issue where the Longbow would not show when moving backwards right after dismounting a horse.
- Fixed an issue where the Ranger’s ear would show awkwardly while wearing the Bern Helmet.
- Fixed an issue with the Bern outfit where certain parts of the costume would overlap in customization.
Changes
- The skill [Dark Split] 4th hit changed to a final hit and the total number of hits has increased.
- Damage of skills that can be learned from Lv.1 to Lv.55 has been changed as follows:
- [Ultimate: Dark Flame] now inflicts damage based on the obtained skill level of [Dark Flame].
- Fixed an issue where damage reduction effect was applied during the cooldown of [Dark Flame]. (This applies to all skill levels of the skill Dark Flame).
- Forward Guard effect will no longer trigger during [Dark Flame] cooldown.
- Fixed an issue where the following skills were not showing hit effects when successfully hitting monsters:
- Sharp Nails
- Beak Kick
- Dream of Doom
- Sinister Energy
[Other Sorceress Changes]
- Fixed an issue where the upper body would show awkwardly when wearing the Karlstein Outfit.
- [Rushing Crow] can now be added to the Ring Menu.
Changes
- Added a motion of swinging down the axes downwards with both hands for the 4th hit of the skill, [Elastic Force].
- Up to 3 hits will be applied to the swinging downward attack.
- 30 WP will instantly be recovered when this attack motion is activated, and 35 WP will be given for each successful hit.
- Damage of skills that can be learned from Lv.1 to Lv.55 has been changed as follows:
- After using [Ultimate: Fierce Strike], when you press LS Left/Right + RB/RT, [Elastic Force] (Basic Attack) or [Shake Off] will now trigger prior to other skills.
- After using [Shake Off], when you hit LS Left/Right +RB+RT, The final hit of [Raging Thunder] will trigger first (this will not affect the cooldown of [Raging Thunder]).
[Other Berserker Changes]
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- Fixed an issue where Berserkers could randomly disappear when using [Fearsome Tyrant] on horseback.
- Fixed an issue where [Elastic Force] PvP damage decrease was not triggering correctly.
- [Raging Thunder] will now activate fully once RB+RT have been pressed. Pressing RB again will finish the skill.
- [Elastic Force] I and II’s final attack will deal normal damage in PvP.
- [Elastic Force] animation has been improved to look more natural.
- [Lava Piercer] can now be added to the Ring Menu.
- When moving with weapons drawn, Berserkers will now break into a sprint earlier.
- The skill, [Staff Attack] has been improved with a final hit animation.
- After casting [Teleport], a +10 DP (10 sec.) buff will activate on the Witch.
- Damage of skills that can be learned from Lv.1 to Lv.55 has been changed as follows:
- The skill, [Staff Attack] has been improved with a final hit animation.
- After casting [Teleport], a +10 DP (10 sec.) buff will activate on the Wizard.
- Damage of skills that can be learned from Lv.1 to Lv.55 has been changed as follows:
- Fixed the issue where moving forward while using [Staff Attack I] would inflict damage abnormally in PvP.
Other Wizard Changes
- The customization screen will no longer show the Wizard’s hat.
- Fixed an issue where the Wizard’s basic hat would not show correctly.
- Fixed the issue where the falling motion would appear when using [Teleport] from a low height (falling motion should be shown when using the skill from a higher height).
- Fixed an issue where the skill [Teleport] would activate when trying to climb a wall.
- Fixed an issue where the Wizard could cancel nearby allies’ processing in certain situations.
- Fixed an issue where the monster detection counter would intermittently reset when using [Magic Lighthouse].